Truth

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura) 09/27/2015 at 16:04 • Filed to: None

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Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:11

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That river thing was huge for like a month.

Also, comparing things like this is like me saying “Sure I committed an armed robbery. But that guy over there killed like 3 people, so I should be let free”

dogisbadob > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:13

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Dorothy got lost looking at her GPS

McMike > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:14

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Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:17

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Are you advocating that we hold corporations even less accountable for their actions? See also: everyone else is doing it, well that car was going faster than me, I like them so it’s okay, did I mention lately I hate the Prius.

whoarder is tellurium > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:17

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I cannot star enough :(

The EPA is great for collecting money and not much else. (Like most 3 letter agencies.) Idiots abroad love to think they’re protecting the environment and herpdederp.

I think I hate the EPA and ATF the most.

Frenchlicker > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:20

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One was an accident while a cleanup effort was underway, the other was purposeful deception of millions of people and several governments worldwide. Both are terrible but neither are comparable.

dogisbadob > whoarder is tellurium 09/27/2015 at 16:22

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Not the NSA and TSA? :p

whoarder is tellurium > dogisbadob 09/27/2015 at 16:24

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NSA is untouchable. All glory to the NSAhypnotoad.

The TSA is just a money absorbing nuisance with no real mission other than purposely making your airport experience hell.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:24

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“We lied to multiple governments, our customers, and our dealers, but see we’re still a loveable, good guy corporation.”

-What you’re saying

DoYouEvenShift > whoarder is tellurium 09/27/2015 at 16:33

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What do you have against automatic transmission fluid?

Just kidding. I dont care for alcohol and tobacco. But I love me some firearms!!!

DoYouEvenShift > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 16:34

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Im not for or against them. Really I want every car company to do well.

I dont care politics, Im just here for the cars.

whoarder is tellurium > Frenchlicker 09/27/2015 at 16:37

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An accident? No, that was negligence managing extremely toxic waste water and compromising an already weakened dam. The difference is no one will hold the EPA accountable for its negligence.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis 09/27/2015 at 16:54

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It’s not the problem of comparing. It’s the fact that in this case the judge trying to sentence you is the guy that killed 3 people.

Frenchlicker > whoarder is tellurium 09/27/2015 at 16:57

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Okay, maybe it was negligence and they majorly fucked up. But it still two very different things. There is still the fact one was absolutely on purpose whilst the other was still not planned for. It’s kind of like the difference between manslaughter and homicide.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/27/2015 at 17:00

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VW gave their consumers better cars at a fair price by doing what they did. The EPA is mad that someone didn’t play their game and respect their bs “authoriteh”. They’ve decided to make an example out of VW for it. This is more of the EPAs march on diesel, they’re just lucky enough to have found a fall guy.

Meanwhile some companies have released products that ACTUALLY killed people, and their fines are less than 1% of what they want to fine VW. Tell me, is that fair?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > McMike 09/27/2015 at 17:00

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I know. But I like what it says...

M54B30 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:02

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I’m with VW.

Mostly because i want a really good deal on a TDIgolf wagon I was going to buy anyways, secondly because i think the EPA are run by morons who don’t actuallu care about the environment, and thirdly because i like things that rile people up even though it doesn’t *really* have an effect on them. Sure NOx are bad, but let’s talk about the chemicals in your Leggo waffle you eat everyday....

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 09/27/2015 at 17:03

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No. I’m saying that VW did what it did to make better cars at the same price we’ve always expected from them. No one was actually hurt except the EPA’s pride because someone didn’t listen to them. That combined with their already rampant anti-diesel campaign means that they are doing everything possible to make VW pay. And I don’t like to see anyone made an example of unfairly.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > M54B30 09/27/2015 at 17:09

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You shouldn’t eat Legos sir. That can’t be good for you.

Hahayoustupidludditeshutupandgohandcrankyourmodeltalready > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:13

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And people mock environmentalists for being smug...

LongbowMkII > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:16

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Yeah, but VW used nazi slave labor sooo...

LongbowMkII > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:17

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Once again, EPA =/ NHTSA have a problem with the lack of power by the NHTSA bring that up with your representative.

LongbowMkII > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:18

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No one is hurt when air quality is ignored.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > LongbowMkII 09/27/2015 at 17:19

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Like 70 years ago. That’s like if your ancestors owned slaves and I said your success was built on it. Not really, right?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:20

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Well, I can see that you’re an engineer, a biologist, an accountant, a geologist, and a car salesman. So, clearly you know that NOx is perfectly healthy for people and the environment. You also know that having to cheat emissions tests so that you can sell, “better cars at a fair price,” is an ethical business practice. No, you’re absolutely right, the governments of the world are only out to fuck you over and on top of that, no corporation has ever been made an example of until VW. VW has clearly done nothing wrong.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > LongbowMkII 09/27/2015 at 17:21

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I’m more worried about depowering the EPA than I am about giving more power to another government organisation.

Spridget > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:23

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GM: “We fully admit that we killed over 1,000 people and did nothing to solve the problem over a 10 year period.”

Government: “Ok that’s nice. We’ll only fine you $900 million. That seem fair?”

VW: “We cheated on some tests, but no one has come to harm.”

Government: “OMG YOU’RE GONNA PAY FOR THIS YOU FUCKING NAZI SCUM WE’RE GONNA FINE YOU BILLIONS HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE TRASH.”

whoarder is tellurium > Frenchlicker 09/27/2015 at 17:23

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VW did skirt by the emissions standards and there is no denying that. Yeah, VW will probably have to change the software on their vehicles or institute other changes too.

The minuscule amount of extra-emissions that violated the EPA’s own instituted standards (NOx, etc) will be greatly outweighed by natural emissions (volcanoes, forest fires, etc) and other dirtier processes that humans have today.

Also, the fact that people are getting so butt hurt over this is astounding, because there are plenty of other companies out there that have done much worse things (like GM). Governments and government entities included.

To be clear, I’m not saying any of this is right, but you’ve got to weigh everything by its effect and what it is worth.

So, what will be the result of this whole fiasco? The EPA/federal government are going to get a huge amount of money out of this and nothing else will change. Our grass wont be greener and our air wont be cleaner. That is what the regulation game is all about.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > LongbowMkII 09/27/2015 at 17:24

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If we were really worried about air quality, we wouldn’t have broken trucks out separate from cars in the industry and give them a pass. There are so many aspects to this whole situation that don’t add up and problems that weren’t problems before for other companies and issues that didn’t matter that all of a sudden matter now that the EPA has a scapegoat.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/27/2015 at 17:26

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Well, since you’re such a law abiding citizen, I’m sure you have 100% Faith in the government and the media to tell you what’s right for you and your family. Good job.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Spridget 09/27/2015 at 17:28

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I love this. So much. But when the government didnt own you for part of your tenure of wrongdoing, you don’t get a pass.

Spridget > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:43

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Exactly. A US Government owned company gets off scot free for killing people, but a foreign one gets more scrutiny for doing less?

LongbowMkII > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:45

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NOx is BAD for everyone. This isn’t “faith” in the government it’s “Hey My lungs burn on hot days and all my kids are asthmatic, we should fix that”

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 17:51

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There’s an awful lot of what the government does that I don’t agree with, but this isn’t one of them. You break the laws you face the consequences, that’s just how it works. But, if you want to be an anarchist, then feel free to, just don’t be a bitch about it when you get caught breaking the law.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > LongbowMkII 09/27/2015 at 17:57

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Okay. Then we should ban old cars, end all manufacturing, and outfit all trade-in vehicle with modern emissions equipment before selling them. Because the problem is so much bigger than “cleaning up” a few new diesels. And yes, in the grand scheme of things, the amount of TDIs sold between 2009 and 2014 is a small slice of the pie.

LongbowMkII > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:04

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all my old cars met standards when sold and continue to. *shrug*

The problem is that NO company will follow the regulations if the regulations are not adequately enforced. You dont think GM/Ford/Toyota would pay a few million in fines to sell more cars too?

DrJohannVegas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:08

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In response, in order:

1) VW was perfectly happy to see their competitors abide by EPA rules, which led some to add after-treatment systems to their cars (adding cost) and run fueling calibrations which hurt mileage and economy to keep combustion temps low, thus avoiding the NOX issue. In other words, VW was happy to screw the EPA’s rules themselves because it gave them strong market advantages. Heck, the rules even kept some competitors from entering the diesel compact market.

2) The King Mine spill hasn’t come up because contracting and remediation of Superfund sites is a completely different matter than administering emissions regulations. But, you’ve already made your “judge is the guy who killed 3 people” argument, so I know where you stand. I’d push back a bit to argue that it wasn’t actually the EPA, but rather an EPA contractor who caused the spill, which raises exactly the same oversight and monitoring issues which the VW case may raises. Finally, the fines go back into the federal budget as a refund from the department, so the fines are distributed beyond the EPA, but it’s the same pot of money (in the long run) as the fund which pays for damages done from the King Mine spill.

3) Can’t argue with you there. Also, even if the end-use efficiency is much higher, a significant source of the electricity used on electrics and plug-in hybrids (I’m lookin at you, Volt and Prius. Tesla already knows where I stand.) is coming from coal, which has NOX and soot problems of its own.

PS: When you cheer for a cheater, you sound like a Patriots fan. Trust me, I know. I’m a lifelong Pats fan AND a VW owner.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > LongbowMkII 09/27/2015 at 18:10

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I think these companies will never be investigated. The first two because theyre American. The last because they are the biggest pushers of hybrid vehicles. And the EPA is for Hybrid and against Diesel. This is where my issue stems from in the first place.

Milky > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:27

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Yo, imma let you finish but the EPA has done good work.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:30

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Regarding your last meme, Toyota extensively scavenges the materials from junked priuses to recycle and re-use.

Xyl0c41n3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:33

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Um, well, actually, YES REALLY.

Do you even understand.... you know what? No. You clearly don’t. I’m not even going to try. Just going to offer a sincere, “bless your heart.”

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Milky 09/27/2015 at 18:36

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That graph doesn’t mean that those happened Because of the EPA. Correlation is not causation.

smobgirl > M54B30 09/27/2015 at 18:38

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LEGO waffles.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 09/27/2015 at 18:38

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How many have been junked though? They still have to replace the worn out pieces and throw out the old ones.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Xyl0c41n3 09/27/2015 at 18:42

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Oh Lord. Here we go again. So all these nice new modern VWs in lots right now we’re made by slaves? How apologists can you be?! Do you not know how time works? I’m lost.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:43

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Not many have just been junked. Toyota buys back the batteries and recycles the cells to use in new Priuses.

Frenchlicker > whoarder is tellurium 09/27/2015 at 18:48

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To be honest I was more pissed about the EPA mess that you mentioned. I was astounded that it wasn’t really ever mentioned by most media outlets. The only thing that bothers me about the VW issue is that they will probably take the easy route and screw people over to an extent. Trust me, I am not the Greenpeace type and completely understand that in the grand scheme this all equals nothing more than a minuscule blip on a larger graph.

Xyl0c41n3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:51

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I’m a WOC (Latina) who sees, everyday, how the institute of racism affects my generation (and myself, personally) and has affected the generations that came before me. To say that the disparities ended on June 19, 1865 (the day when the last slaves were finally told they were free, two full years AFTER the Emancipation Proclamation was made) is beyond naive, BEB. I’m not an apologist, BEB, I’m a realist. Maybe you don’t understand any of this because you have the luxury of never having to experience any of it.

To be clear, my reaction was to this statement by you: That’s like if your ancestors owned slaves and I said your success was built on it. Not really, right?

I’m going to ask you politely to please step back from this conversation or these kinds of analogies in this post, BEB. One, because it’s offensive and extremely tone deaf, and two, because... well... I don’t need a second reason. Just step back and stop.

PushToStart > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:52

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What they did isn’t right. Lying to your customers is not a good business strategy, and they should face some sort of punishment for doing so...

But it’s not the worst thing in the world. Maybe this makes me wrong, but I don’t hate VW for this. They got caught, they admitted it, and now they’re dealing with the consequences. To me, that’s a world better than trying to cover up an issue that has actually killed people... So while this whole issue is kinda shitty, I think it should be put into perspective for just a second before everyone yells to burn VW at the stake.

Milky > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 18:53

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Except for the fact there was no emissions control before and the graph goes hand in hand with each standard past by the EPA.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/…

.... your fanboy is showing.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Xyl0c41n3 09/27/2015 at 19:00

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Look. I am not responsible for anything the previous generations before me did. And my success is not built from their life choices. If you think that it is, then you diminish my choices and my life and boil them down to just another point on a line with an assigned family name. You are essentially telling me that I don’t matter because of another person’s transgressions, and that is the most discriminatory statement I’ve ever heard. You should be ashamed of that kind of thinking.

Part B. Youve now made a post describing how stupid you think I am. I hope you get banned because that kind of harrassment deserves just that kind of punishment.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PushToStart 09/27/2015 at 19:02

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Look, if VW is willing to make things right, then I don’t see why everyone is lighting the torches. The problem is they’re being made an example of, or at least that’s what they’re trying to do. That’s where my problem stems from.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Milky 09/27/2015 at 19:04

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Also, TDIs aren’t having problem with CO2. They’re good for that. Less than gas even with the trick system. The problem is nox.

Xyl0c41n3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 19:09

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Your world must be a very interesting place.

PushToStart > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 19:14

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I agree. And I’d be willing to bet that VW isn’t the only company that’s done this, they're just the first ones to get caught, and so it makes it a lot easier to paint the picture that VW is the big, evil car manufacturer.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PushToStart 09/27/2015 at 19:20

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There are already reports coming in to the effect that it’s a whole industry problem. But you see, that doesn’t light up the headlines quite the same. At least not until they fully “expose” the one company (VW in this case) first. Then a while second round of news comes with the expansion into the whole industry. News is a business too of course...

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Xyl0c41n3 09/27/2015 at 19:31

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A week and a half ago, you were lamenting on a post how people “have it out” for you. You wrote it from the perspective that you’re innocent and that anyone feeling that way is unfounded. When you come after people like this and create the drama that you do, you are hurting the spirit of Oppo. That’s twice in 3 weeks you’ve attempted to completely lambaste me. And I saw you do it to other people who, Heaven forbid, shared my oppinion. I’m disappointed that you think this is okay. I’m even more so confused as to why you can’t figure out why people have problems with you.

M54B30 > smobgirl 09/27/2015 at 19:33

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NOW i got the other guy’s lego reference, i thought that was their name but it’s just their slogan

Xyl0c41n3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 19:36

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What the fuck are you actually talking about?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Xyl0c41n3 09/27/2015 at 19:38

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Your behavior. Your posts. I remember things that happen. You have a distinct name, avatar, and writing style. I didn’t say anything then, but it’s only gone downhill since.

Xyl0c41n3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 19:41

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Wait, wait... hang on... Let me get comfortable on this couch.

Ok, there. Ok... so, now you’re going to say it all started with my mother, right?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Xyl0c41n3 09/27/2015 at 20:34

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So you’re saying you wish to blame your mother for your misgivings? Poor woman. Mine wasn’t a saint by any stretch, but my problems aren’t her fault. I take responsibility for my shit.

DrJohannVegas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 20:39

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoana…

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > DrJohannVegas 09/27/2015 at 20:41

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Yeah, I got the reference. What, I can’t be funny?

And what’s the deal with you and Wikipedia tonight? Lol

DrJohannVegas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 20:44

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https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/damp_squi…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work-to-r…

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 09/27/2015 at 20:45

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When I said junked, I meant ones thrown away that Toyota is scavenging for. Unless something has changed in the last month since I left the car business, there is still a huge market for used Prii (is that even the word?). Thats doesn’t leave many to scavenge from, meaning they’re still making more from scratch.

EL_ULY > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 20:47

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I got your Toyota Hybrid.... right here!

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > EL_ULY 09/27/2015 at 20:51

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Oh rly?

EL_ULY > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 21:44

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Yes!

Welp, this year seems to be going to Porsche. Can’t wait til they release any details of the TS-050 and the 2015 specs of the Audi and Porsche. WEC > F1

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 09/27/2015 at 21:53

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Indeed that are, but they’re doing their part, which is more than what can be said of Volkswagen.